Stop Building for Safety and Start Building for Meaning ft. Neen James

On this week’s episode, Jana sits down with leadership strategist, keynote speaker, and author Neen James, who built a successful business helping organizations improve productivity and attention, only to realize she was being pulled toward a message that didn’t fit neatly into any category.

Neen takes us into a pivotal moment during one of the most uncertain periods in recent history. As live events disappeared and the speaking industry transformed overnight, she found herself serving leaders around the world in a completely different way—showing up for clients, helping teams navigate impossible decisions, and rethinking what people actually needed most. 

But beneath the surface, something else had been growing for years.

What started as an expertise in productivity evolved into a deeper belief: that attention creates connection, and connection creates experiences people never forget. Inspired by memories of her mother creating moments of beauty and care despite having very little, Neen began questioning whether luxury had less to do with wealth and more to do with making people feel seen, heard, and valued. 

The challenge wasn’t the idea.

It was that nobody wanted her to pursue it.

Peers questioned whether it was commercially viable. Industry leaders warned her not to abandon what already worked. Her team struggled to sell something that didn’t fit into an obvious category. Even Neen herself tried to keep one foot in the old business while cautiously introducing the new.

What followed wasn’t a simple rebrand.

It was a complete decision to stop optimizing for what was safe and start building around what she truly believed.

This episode breaks down:

•  Why success can become the biggest obstacle to meaningful change 
•  How attention and connection shape extraordinary experiences 
•  The hidden risk of staying inside categories that no longer fit 
•  Why building something original requires evidence, conviction, and patience 
•  How creating moments that make people feel seen can transform business and leadership 

Neen also shares how she validated her vision through original research, developed a completely new framework around luxury as a mindset, and built a category of one that ultimately led to her most successful years in business, a bestselling book, and an entirely new way of serving organizations. 

Because at the end of the day, the biggest decisions aren’t about choosing what’s safest.

They’re about having the courage to build a life around what you already know is true.

Where to find Neen:

• linkedin.com/in/neenjames
• neenjames.com

Where to find Jana:

• https://janaaxline.com/ 
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/janaaxline/
• Instagram: @unstoppableleaders
• TikTok: @jana_axline 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

How would you reverse engineer? What would that look like? I don't think that when you're doing a pivot, it's not really, really messy. And the messy middle is what you've got to do. Let me see the window of the Instagram. Right? So I think I would say have a look all the way down the track. What do you want to think and feel and do? And what does that look like? And how would you investigate that, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Today I'm here with Neen James, who is a leadership strategist, keynote speaker, and author of exceptional experiences. Known for helping organization design moments that drive results and create lasting brand advocates. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today, Neen. What a privilege. Thank you for everything you're doing to inspire so many people globally. Thank you. Well, I'd love to jump right into it. So today we're talking about a decision that you made that may have changed the trajectory that you were on.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Uh, you mentioned in my opening that I have a keynote speaking component of my business. And I think for me, there were so many different opportunities that I had. And there was one that just kept coming up time and time and time and time again. And I had ignored it for quite a long time. And then despite everyone telling me that I shouldn't do what I did, I ended up doing it. And I remember exactly when it happened. And I remember my heart rate at the time of when I made that decision. And so yeah, um, I do very clearly remember that pivotal moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

And can you tell us w were you under any constraints at the time? Like what was what was kind of happening?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

You know, I had all of um if we cast our minds back to when the world was on fire, and you know, life was very different as a keynote speaker. You and I know we've had the privilege of working together. The majority of my income streams were based on standing in ballrooms, on stages, serving audiences around the world. Then the world got on fire, the world changed. And fortunately for me, I had a lot of global clients, and so I'd always been used to being able to speak on camera because I'd presented virtually, I remember when we used to present on Skype. I mean, that's how long I've been doing it for. But it wasn't about the modality, it was really about what is going to be most important for this room of people. And so where a lot of keynote speakers had to get jobs, close down their business, for me, it was really a change, which is not actually what my pivotal moment or my big change was about. But what I did have to do was to think what is the what is the best way to serve this leader in this moment? And at the heat of, I hate using that word, but at the heat, you know, I really at the peak of that, I was spending about 16 hours a day online talking to all of my leaders and teams. And so, you know, the situation that I faced is I had a particular expertise that I was known for. Like so many people, I had to change that. But it was really thinking about I already had a very successful business, and I could have just like, I could have just shut down and not done anything, and some people did choose to do that. But I chose to change and really just stand in service of all those clients for no fee, by the way. I was like, what do you need? How do I help your teens? What are you going through? And it was at the time where people, some of my clients were having to decide do they close their buildings, their hospitals, their manufacturing plants. I mean, the clientele that I have is so was so diverse at the time. And so, and some of my favorite clients were impacted because of hospitality and travel and things that I loved. So I think the situation that I faced was really thinking through how do I best stand in service of the people that I love, like truly love. And if I couldn't be paid for that, so what? Like I still had to make decisions about that and take care of my family at the same time. Uh, and I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it for anything.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

So you mentioned um you were you were in ended up having to make a pivot from your expertise. What was your expertise at the time? What were you speaking on? What were you helping with?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Many of the meeting planners that I would work with, the bureau partners that I had, my clientele. I was definitely known for the work that I did in focus, productivity, and attention. I have a book called Attention Pays. And the book to this day still gets such lovely reviews, which I'm very grateful for. But my expertise was really in that area. And when I first started speaking, it was very much about productivity. You know, how do you get more done? And that was important at that time. And then I realized, well, you can't manage time. That's a stupid idea. Like you can't manage time, that's not even an option. But you can manage your attention, and that's how the iteration of attention really got my focus. So I researched very deeply that particular area. And then I started to realize that attention is all about connection, right? That's what attention is. And I think places that truly feel like they connect so well are let's say, for example, luxury brands. And so I was very fortunate to be the confidante to CEOs of luxury and legacy brands. And I was able to sit at conversations and see the nuances. I love how luxury personalizes and customizes everything. And I started to really think, and I've always loved things that are beautiful. I am definitely a brand brat. I love beauty and all everyday. And so I'd always believed, always believed, that luxury was a mindset. And so, and this this inspiration is from my mom, you know, from as a little girl, you know that I'm Australian. And so, you know, when I was a little girl, I was raised by a single mom, me and my little sister. And my mom, oh my god, she would clean houses, she picked lettuce, she sold fruit on the side of the road. And in Australia, we lived in a caravan. In America, they call that a trailer park. And no matter how busy my mum was, no matter how tired she was, at the end of a busy shift, she would walk through a community garden and she would pick a flower and she would bring it home to our little caravan and she'd put it in a glass. We called it a vase because it made us feel fancy. And my mum in that small ritual reminded us both as little girls that everybody deserved luxury. Everybody deserved beauty every single day. It didn't matter about money or things. My mum was role modeling for me this belief I've always had that luxury is a mindset. But I can't just walk into one of my CEO's offices and go, so luxury is mindset. Okay? Like nobody's gonna believe that. And luxury is not a drop-down menu for a meeting planner. You get drop-down options for your speakers like leadership, inspiration, motivation. Nowhere is luxury a drop-down. And so for me, one of those moments was really standing in what I truly believed, and that is that I think everyone deserves luxury every day. And when people realize now luxury looks different to different people, when I started to think, what if I evolved my focus from attention and started to think about luxury? And you'll never believe the haters. I mean, it was everyone had an opinion on what I should and shouldn't do. And so I think, you know, when I think about even people who are well-intentioned, you know, I remember the National Speakers Association, which is my professional association as a keynote speaker, and so many leaders in that organization said, you know, this is ridiculous, you're never gonna make money out of this, this luxury thing is never gonna work, no one's gonna pay attention to that, you're never gonna get booked as a keynote speaker for that. So that was like it was the pivotal moment for me, as you've been listening to this, is very much having that courage, I guess, to say this is what I believe, it's what I've been role-modelled from my mom since I was a little girl. It's what I love to extend to the people around me. That really luxury, just secretly between you and I, I think it's just about making people feel seen, heard, and valued. And so that really was a big change for me to move all my branding from what commercially made sense, teach people to be more productive, teach people to pay attention, teach companies how they can increase their sales and revenue by being able to get the attention of clients. That makes commercial sense, right? Teaching people that everyone deserves luxury every day because they're worth it and making people foreseen her and valued, people are like, I don't know what box to put you in.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

And so that's Yeah, well, sorry, one of them's very hard, like a hard skill, like or you know, very measurable. I can create more productivity, and one is very feeling-oriented. And how do we get an ROI on that?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, exactly. And I think it's enough of a challenge. If you're listening to this podcast, I know I sound like I'm five. I'm 4'10 and a half, like I have an Australian accent, nothing packaging about me says, you know, hardcore business, right? And so generally, as a keynote speaker, in those first few moments, I have to eliminate all those doubts of the audience, right? Who are thinking, who's this little thing in pink coming out and trying to talk to us about like how we're gonna make more money? Fortunately, with luxury, what I was able to do is I was already running a successful business, but I wanted to share so much more. I wanted to have such a bigger impact than just the professional side. And I think luxury as a mindset has the personal side as well, to your point. You see, you don't have to have a luxury product to provide a luxury level of service. And so when I could connect that, and uh I think what was at stake for me was besides the fact that everyone told me I couldn't do it, in my professional association, a lot of fellow speakers, you know, were just like, oh, we'll just watch and see her fail. You know, like that, you know, it was amazing. But I think too, for me, what was really important was, and I I would say this to our listeners too, is if you do have an idea, you also need to find evidence for your idea. And so what I knew I had to do was I had to like make a clear decision, be really brave in that decision to put my my name, my reputation, my business, my clients, and pursue it, but not just pursue it, research it. So I have the only research study of its kind in the whole world on luxury as a mindset. So I literally spent a gajillion dollars researching luxury as a mindset. I didn't want to know how does luxury make you feel, because that to your point, that feels soft, right? And it it hopefully it makes you feel great. I wanted to know how does it affect our decisions, who makes a decision, how long does it take to make a decision, and where do we go for that influence on our decision? What are we spending? How long does it take us to make decisions? So we went into so much detail about how you think about luxury. And I always thought there was minds, one mindset, I was wrong, there's actually four. So we discovered all kinds of different information in our research. So I think when I made the decision, it wasn't a decision I made lightly to change the focus area of my business. But now, more than ever before, I've never been happier. I've never felt like the message has resonated so deeply with clients. I've had my most successful commercial years ever. And we published a book, you know, based on the research study as well. And so to this day, I still have the only research study of its kind. And what's really interesting is how it resonates with people personally and professionally. And the DMs I get, the comments I get after a speech, that is so rewarding to me.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

That's fantastic. But when you let's go back to the stakes for a minute, because you were you had one brand and you said, I have to change my brand. And so that basically said it sounds like you have to say yes to one thing and and no to another. Was it?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

At the time, I was like, I'll just keep attention pays as my keynote, like safety, right? Because people don't look that. And I'll just slowly introduce, you know, the luxury mindset stuff. You know, so maybe I can do a little bit of both, and then I'll mishmash them together. Well, that was very messy. And what was easier for my team was to sell the attention pays keynote than it was to sell the luxury keynote because it was just too hard, too soft, which sounds crazy. It was too hard to do it because there wasn't a category for it. It didn't fit anywhere. You know, meeting planners for partners were like, we don't know where to put you, right? So I wish I could say I was intelligent. I wish I could say I bravely stopped doing all of the attention pays work and then bravely went and did the like I did not. It was messy and messiness, if a if a decision maker doesn't know what to choose, they just choose neither, right? So then what I realized was if I truly wanted to commit to this and be a category of one, to truly be the person that others think of when it comes to how do we elevate this experience, and I happen to do it using luxury principles, then I want my name to be the one. So that was a harder decision, by the way. So commercially, yeah, that's tough. I admire people who can offer multiple topics that did not work for me.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

And so before like before you've kind of figured that out, when you were in the moment of making that decision of going down this path, what do you think if it had failed, what would that have looked like then?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

And I would have could have just basically lost that complete profit center in my practice. So, you know, just never being booked to speak again, that could have been a reality. And I I knew that. Fortunately, I have the opportunity to be a confidante to a lot of CEOs. So I do some strategic advisory work, which thank goodness for that, because that also helped me while I had the courage to stop taking all of the other kind of keynotes or breakouts that were related to my previous expertise. So yeah, I could have j I could have just stopped my business, but I when I thought through that, I was like, okay, well, if that happens, what's the worst thing that can happen? Okay, I could go get a job if I was gonna get a job. And I'm I I suspect I'm not a great employee. I have always been the person people bring in to play like the devil's advocate, to be the strategic advisor, and so I can my ideation productivity is off the charts. I can come up with a thousand ideas for you in in ten minutes. Execution, not my thing. So that's why I think I've always like I'm not as fabulously employable like people, maybe some people who are listening to this podcast. Knowing that, but if I needed to to support my family, sure. Then what's the worst thing that can happen? Then I have to go find a role. And believe me, I did. I thought about the clients that I love serving. I was like, could I sit at their ELT meeting? Could I be one of their executives on their team? And so yeah, they were the things, the decisions I had to weigh up. It was also really hard for my team because they were like, but we're really comfortable. We like selling this, we like these bureaus know this, we like that the meeting planners know you as this, you know. Now you want us to try and sell something different. So the team, it was awkward for them, you know. My husband was like, like, what? Luxury? Like really? You know what I mean? Like, you know. So I think what was at stake? Uh other people's belief in me, you know, like, you know, my team, my partner, you know, the people around me, my mentors, like how are you gonna do this? So there's a lot at stake. And I think you and I wish I could say I stayed really strong. No, I did not. I would wobble, I would waffle, you know what I mean? I would mishmash things together. Now I'm very fortunate to be on the other side of all that. But that's not an easy journey for people who are wanting to make whatever your decision is, weighing up, it's not as simple as like a list of pros and cons. That's not the way we're wired as humans, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

So I just want to make sure I understand this. So you're you're in the middle of COVID. Your business is still doing well on productivity. It's just maybe changed the format a little bit because of the lack of live events. You have this idea, though, that that's just been calling to you for a long time around luxury, the importance of luxury and having luxury experiences, how that defined for each individual person. But what was at that time prompting you to think the contingency plan all the way to I might have to get a job? Like what was driving that feeling?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

It was really interesting because you in COVID, I started posting like, how do you make your morning ritual more luxurious? How if you're stuck at home, how do you make your office more luxurious? So I was starting to use things that I was just doing myself and have been doing forever. If you're fortunate to have, when we're allowed to have people visit us, if you have guests in your home, here's how you can entertain them, right? And then I we were in Florida, so we had the privilege of being outside on the boat, and I remember I was posting photos of my boat. Um, not in a way like, oh my god, look at me, I have a boat. It was not about that. It was like we are so fortunate to have the freedom to be on the water and pretend none of this exists. And one of my dearest friends reached out to me and she was like, You are so clueless, you are so thoughtless, you are posting things that the world is on fire and you're like on your boat. And I was like, Yes, because this is how I'm coping. But she made this point that I was just so out of touch. And I was like, But I'm trying to bring this luxury for my own sanity. But it was really, it was really hard to hear one of your dearest friends call you all the names under the sun, that none of them were very flattering. But she was doing it with the best intentions. She's like, I think you've lost the plot. Like, and we all lost the plot when that was happening. But I I was there was still something in me that was like, but what if we could make just people's morning coffee routine a little bit more special? We could give them something to look forward to. What if they could pay attention to the people they were in the proximity with? What if, what if, what if, what if? And I think we all understood the value of relationships back then. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

But so did you think that I've I maybe this such such a bad idea and with COVID and my business, my my profitable business might fail, and that's why I might have to get a real job?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah. I it's exactly, you know, think about where your head goes, right? If you are listening to this and you are an entrepreneur, there are times where you've wanted to close your business. And if you haven't, then that's amazing and I admire that. But anyone who's been on an entrepreneurial journey will tell you there are peaks and real valleys, but you're alone a lot of the time. And you're in your head a lot of the time. So you think of sometimes the worst case scenario, right? Oh my gosh, in my case, I have to go work for someone else. That was like my worst case scenario. And so I think for people whether maybe you're a corporate person and you used to think that having a role in a corporation was really secure, and then you came to learn that was not the case, right? And so there's no sense of stability or security, like, say, for example, maybe our grandparents had. You know, that's just not something that exists now. So yeah, I had to play it all the way through because I think we all had many sleepless nights. I think we all doom scrolled way too much. We, you know, we lost touch because of the fact that we were in the situation that we were in. But I had to make a deliberate decision at one point just to really focus on what inputs I did allow. I went off social media for quite some time. I wasn't reading the news, I wasn't even watching the news. Like I had to really protect my brain to start to think about what would this new look like? How could I bring more of this to truly elevate? Because, like I said, I was spending up to 16 hours a day on Zoom with some of my CEOs and their teams. And so I had to be upbeat, I had to be optimistic, I had to find strength to be able to give that out to people. So yeah, there was, I mean, like so many people, there was some darkness, of course, but here we are on the other side of it. And I think some people have even forgotten what it used to be like.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

And when you were was one of the things on your mind when you're helping these clients, because you were saying at that point this wasn't you were helping them for free because you were just trying to figure out what they needed and and all of that. So were you thinking, oh, I have to figure out how to turn this back into turn something into you know, making revenue again? Or was that not a concern yet at that time?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I don't think I was quite desperate at that point. I think I had a belief and a hope that those same executives, when business returned to normal, whatever, we never knew what that was gonna look like because it just felt like it was going on and on and on. But in the earlier days where we thought, oh, this is only gonna be a few weeks, then it was gonna be a few months, you know, end up being a few years. Um, I kind of just assumed that they would remember that I helped them during those times. Now that's a really bad assumption. And I remember it was really interesting. There was a couple of associations. They said, Hey, will you speak for us at our association virtual event, you know? And I was like, of course I would. And they said, when we all get back together, we'll definitely bring you in as a speaker. That didn't happen, you know, because they were like, oh, but we had you in COVID. So it's really kind of funny now. I mean, I don't care, I'm not holding any grudges, but it's really interesting to me that some people have short memories too. But for me at the time, I love the clients I work with. I was so privileged to be involved in so many intimate conversations and you know, think about how tough it was for leaders, especially during that time, where it wasn't just them and their families that they were concerned about. It was the hundreds of thousands of people that reported into them and they were very conscious of their families too. That's a lot of pressure for people. And so I think it was an incredible privilege to be able to do what I did during those days.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

And so were your the options at the time, you know, it was obviously continue doing um your productivity and attention work, it was or do you know, m pivot into luxury or worst case, get a job. Um was there anything else you were evaluating? Any other I don't know, business lines or anything else that you were you were thinking about at the time?

SPEAKER_01 21:52

So funny you asked that because in the very early days when we were all thinking it was only going to last a few weeks. I very arrogantly posted when I used to be on Facebook. This is a long time ago, like this is COVID, right? Um, I was like, oh, I'm gonna lose 10 pounds, work out every day, and write a new book. That was like my ridiculous post that I put on Facebook one day when we'd been locked down for like two weeks. And I was like, Oh, I've got all the time in the world. I'm gonna like lose 10 pounds, I gotta write a book. So my publisher reached out and said, Are you serious about writing a book? And I was like, no, that was just like bravado. And they said, But if you were, what would you write about? So then we had, so I eventually agreed to work with them and we had scoped out this book, and then we had sent it to Salesforce, as you know their company, just to get their eyes on the overview, and they were like, yep, we love it, great idea. So I started writing this book. And it was all very much about systems thinking and relationships and systems. And I woke up one morning, once again, in COVID, and I was like, this is so dumb. When we get out of this, nobody's gonna want to read a book about systems thinking. Like, what is wrong with me, right? That and I I remember going back to the publishers, two amazing women, Jesse and Trina, who are the co-founders of page two, and I was like, I can't write this book. I don't want to write this book, nobody's gonna want to read this book. I don't think I've ever told anyone this story. And I was like, this is just a mess. Like, I can't do this. So yeah, there were lots of different things I was trying to experiment with, but notice it wasn't about luxury, which is what I really wanted to see. It was a safe commercial topic that I knew corporations would buy and still just didn't feel right.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

And so when you finally can you can you remember when you finally decided that yes, I'm doing this and this is the path I'm on? And and maybe it took a while to shed some of the other pieces, but was it a clearly defined decision moment?

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah, I I remember a conversation with one of my besties, and he I remember him saying to me, you know, you are the confidant to CEOs of Luxury and Legacy Brands. I was like, Yeah, yeah. He's like, you know, there's people out there who are like getting awards in industry and getting all the things, but these CEOs have you on SpeedDow. And I was like, Yeah. And he said, and you're enjoying that, right? Yeah, yeah, I love it. And he said, and maybe that's perhaps that's something that you may want to look at more. And I was like, duh, like, of course that's what I love. Of course that's what I do. And it was through his encouragement and encouragement of others, but I remember sitting in his kitchen and thinking, uh, huh, he's right. Like, I could commercialize that. I think these decisions we make are often influenced by things that we know intuitively, things that have been raw modeled to us. And we do things to honor other people. I'm so fortunate my mum's still around. She's still so excited about the things that she sees. I'll never forget when I published my book Exceptional Experiences in October of 2025. It was published in the US before it was published in Australia, and I dedicated the book to my mum and she didn't know. So it was on a trip home that I actually got to share it with her and show her, and it was really cool just to see how proud because she I took my mom loves it when I'm home in Australia, and I take her for afternoon tea. She thinks it's so fancy. We drink champagne and have a little afternoon tea. And we were sitting there and she was like, you know, like you're like you're from a small town. Like we lived in a caravan, and now like I see you on like stages and TV and just to watch her pride was really incredible. And so I think, yes, there were things that influenced my decision. I think too, as you get older, you're looking more at legacy and what you're learning and how you can also share that. And so I would love people to feel more seen, more heard, more valued. And if the work that I am teaching them in luxury, I think luxury is is also attached to our self-worth, you know, like believing that we are worth, you know, that extra moment. And luxury could be, it could be the luxury of time, it could be meditating for a little longer, it could be, you know, drinking your water out of a Tiffany cup. I don't know. Like whatever feels like luxury to you, luxury is so different to different people. But just knowing that you're worth it and that feeling that you get and believing that, I think, is an incredible honor to my mom. But I'm watching how it is transforming organizations from moving from transactional conversations to truly transformative ones where they're not just capturing the attention of clients they want to work with, but those same clients are becoming advocates because they truly believe that that person is giving them that feeling, that sense of belonging, that's luxury.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

So, in that moment that you were sitting in your friend's kitchen, was it that moment that tipped you from uncertainty into action? Or was there a moment validation?

SPEAKER_01 26:52

You know, sometimes we have a lot of things swimming around in our heads. If you're listening to this and you might have competing thoughts, can I do this? What if I did that? I'm not sure I can do that. But sometimes someone who knows you so, so well and they validate something you've been thinking, but they speak it out loud, they give it language, they can articulate. Sometimes the friends that we love are better at articulating things for us than we are, you know, and so and Michael, who is, you know, one of my bestest friends, he has that ability to speak directly into my life and articulate something so clear. Not a lot of people I allow to do that, but he really did. And so I think we have these people in our life that come across our path, and sometimes their validation of our beliefs is really important in the process. But also, too, we can have people who really love us dearly and have very good intentions and still say things that are incredibly hurtful and unsupportive. And I certainly had my share of those people. But I think sometimes we only need one or two people. I remember my friend Thames, and Thames and Webster is the one of the smartest women I know. She's phenomenal. When she started to help me shape the idea, they call her the idea whisperer. She's, you know, she's the sense giver. And when she could actually make what I was trying to believe in my head an idea for a keynote structure, that's when I was like, huh, maybe, maybe this actually is commercial. So I think if you are fortunate to have Michaels and Thames in your world, you need to find your people and ignore those who aren't in support of what it is that you want to do. But having that validation for the idea and then see it being able to be executed through the brilliance of working with someone like Thames and Webster, that's when I was like, okay, I really am onto something here. But the research study, what was also interesting about the research study, besides the fact it's the only one, is that's when the publisher reached out a second time and said, Hey, we read the executive summary of your research, perhaps this is a book. And that is how exceptional experiences actually came into the world, is because the team at page two said there's nothing like this in the market and in the world. So that's how the book came about as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Oh, that's awesome. So when you when you were um in the in the midst of all, or sorry, when you you mentioned just now about making decisions and having all these ideas, and you seem to be a person who has lots of ideas. So how do you evaluate? Do you have a process of evaluation about which ideas get killed and which ones move forward?

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Oh my gosh, it's so funny you say that because my team will want every vendor that we work with, all of our business partners, if a new team member comes in, my team will say to them, Neen has hundreds of ideas. You don't have to execute on them all. Like the team have learned with me that I will so now what I say is let's just do some ideation around this. For me, there I have certain criteria. Um, the simplest decision form that I because I travel a lot and the team know that I want to have clarity around decisions. When I'm on the road, one of the things that we talk about is no major decisions when I'm on never when I'm with a client, never talk to me before I go on stage for a keynote, and wait until I'm off stage, back in my hotel room or at the airport. So I'm not exposed to any information that requires a decision in that time. So I can protect my brain for that client. But our decision making system is this if it's not yes, it's no. So when I'm really, really at capacity, when I am traveling extensively, when I'm with clients and I have full client loads in the day, if it's not an instant yes, it's an absolute no. Like I don't second guess it. So I'm very, very specific about that. Because think about it. Let's say, Jenny, you get invited to a party with some neighbors, and you're like, do I really want to go? I don't know if I want to go. Should I go? I should go because I that would be a nice polite thing to do, but you're not really sure if you want to go, right? And so sometimes we go to the we obligatory yes, we say, oh sure, we'll come. And then you get there and you're like, why didn't I just stay home? I would much rather be binge watching something on Netflix. When in doubt, right? If it's not an instant yes, it's so much more kind just to say, no. Thank you for thinking of me. Your event sounds amazing. I have another commitment. Commitment could be with Netflix, could be with my pillow, nothing needs to be killed, right? But I think what happens is we live in this gray. Too often when people are trying to make a decision, they live in this gray area of should I, shouldn't I, what if, what if, and we waste all this beautiful real estate of our brain. I always think our brain is like luxury real estate. And we allow stupid things to live rent-free in there. Whereas if you have the clarity to maximize the space in your brain and allow it just to have the space for those clear decisions. So if it's not yes, it's no, still to this day is, you know, very much part of my decision making. I process out loud. I have a phenomenal business coach by the name of Pam Slim. And so I'll say to her, this is where I'm heading. This is what I've considered, what am I missing? And so what I'm looking for, not always validation, but what can I see? I will sometimes ask someone, what did I not ask you that I should have asked you? Like I'm always looking for what's the piece that might change this, but I will speak out loud. And I have a very trusted small circle, Michael Thames, and people that I intimately trust with kind of knowing everything they know. And I'll say, this is kind of what I'm grappling with. I'd love your input before I make my final decision. So I am a person who processes out loud, not by consensus, but certainly through a trusted advisory type group.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Yeah, no, I always I used to tell people, you don't know it, but you're on my board of directors.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

And the reason they didn't know it is because I just think everyone needs a personal board of directors. Yes, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

And I would just meet with them individually, right? So they didn't know there were others, but you know, I would ask the same question and just hear the different perspectives and you know, and then synthesize that for myself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

These are all people, yeah, I love that. I think it's important to have a real diversity of thought. Not everyone is going to agree with you, not everyone's gonna have the same values as you, not everyone's gonna have the same beliefs as you. And I think it's important to have diversity of thought. And so I've set my life up that I have that and the privilege of having people from such diverse backgrounds and global opinions and generational differences and cultural differences. I think that all is important too, because if you have a business or a message that is a global one, you need to ensure that it is not just serving one small slice of the population or generation. And in my case, because my books are already being translated into multiple languages and it's not it's not even been out six months. I needed to make sure the message could resonate, the examples could resonate globally. And that's another part of my decision making is am I being as inclusive as I possibly can? Because inclusion is really important to me, having that sense of belonging and making sure that I'm not using examples or language that would make anyone feel excluded.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

And so when you let's go back to your decision, when you decided to make make this pivot, can you identify what principle guided your decision?

SPEAKER_01 34:01

I still would go back to my mom. It was my mom's role modeling that everyone deserves luxury. It doesn't matter about money, it um it matters about moments. And so I think the principle also too, if you think about that, is what is that value? You need to know your own value. You have to believe in yourself first. Even when others don't, you have to have the courage to quietly and bravely believe and back yourself. You know, I remember, you know, even when I was publishing this book, I remember saying to one of my friends, Yep, I'm backing myself on this project. Like I'm all in on this. So I think you had that. One of the principles is very much that ability to believe in yourself. And if you can't believe in yourself, find someone who does and get them to hold that belief for you and just remind you when you're ready, like Michael, when I was ready to jump off ledges and you know, burn everything down, he'll be like, Yeah, you could do that. Or this is what could happen. You know, so just having someone who can hold the space for you like that is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

So on a personal level, it was belief in yourself, but then at an idea level, it was really, how do we, you know, how do we bring luxury to the world?

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Yeah, see, I think here's the here's the problem with luxury. I think luxury is a divisive word. I think some people see it as elitist, unapproachable, not for me, you know, up there somewhere, aspirational. And I want to change the narrative around luxury because I think luxury is both inclusive and exclusive. It's inclusive because everybody deserves it every day, however, your definition of luxury is, right? It might be time, it might be thread count, but it's exclusive because we can roll out a red carpet experience for everyone in our life, in our personal and our professional life, for our team, for our clients, for our colleagues. So I think luxury is inclusive and exclusive. And I want to be part of changing that narrative because the best luxury brands I have the privilege of working with, whether it is for seasons, virtuoso, travel, writs, it doesn't matter. They understand personalization and customization better than anyone. And we can all learn from them, make it a more personalized, bespoke experience for the person who is standing in front of us. And in our digital AI world, that human connection, we crave that more than we ever have before. I'm gonna call that luxury.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

No, that's great. And so, well, tell us what the outcome was like after you made the decision. What were kind of the next step, like next steps, and then and and yeah, how did it work?

SPEAKER_01 36:33

I want to tell you it was smooth and it was easy, and that would be such a lie because as I told you, it was messy. It was really messy. So once I made the decision uh and understood, I had this really unique position. No one was speaking about luxury. I had the only research study of its kind. I was the confidant to CEOs of luxury brands. I had clients that were so fabulous, beautiful hoteliers, tour companies, media companies. So I had all of the ingredients. I had the modality of speaking, uh, I was able to create exceptional experiences. But I think when I really think about what the outcome was, it was that I was able to stand true in this belief that my mom had role modeled for me and that I could find ways to scale that message across the planet so that people could realize how important it was to make other people feel seen, heard, and valued. And what was fascinating was yes, the book became a USA Today bestseller first week, it won the Axiom Silver Medal and the Business Book Awards. But I got asked to join the board of the World Luxury Chamber of Commerce. I mean, who knew that was even a thing? You know what I mean? So I think when you lean into something that you really love and you can block out the noise of what is happening around you, whether it is globally, environmentally, emotionally, and you can really step up into that place where you find the people who can support you. The decision that I made to really go into trying to create this category of one with luxury, really that luxury leadership, you know, that everyone deserves luxury every day because they're worth it. It's a journey. I don't I think it's a journey that I'm still on. And even though the book's being translated into multiple languages, there's so much to do. And I'm really excited by that because the next iteration of that is we've taken this book and we've also created a system, the Experience Elevation System, which is the playbook for businesses. So it operationalizes everything inside the book with templates and toolkits and AI prompts and team meeting guides and like all the tools that you need to introduce this to your business, or whether you are service business or enterprise. That's really exciting to see people responding to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

And so when you look back, do you attribute any of it to luck, or was it your judgment? It sounds like there's a bit of I was true to myself. Like, how do you what do you tr attribute the ex success to?

SPEAKER_01 39:01

I don't believe in luck. I do believe in putting yourself in the right rooms, in the right spaces, making sure that you are doing everything you can to be as educated as you can. You know, I don't ask questions that, you know, maybe I can ask Claude, my boyfriend. Like I, you know what I mean? Like I just, if there's things that I want to know, I want to have done the research in advance first, right? So I think it's I don't believe in luck, but I do believe in I'm very privileged. I'm very privileged to have the opportunity and the space to work with, you know, my mantra is I do what I love with people I love in places I love. I mean, that is a privilege to work, but it's also a privilege to say no to the things that I didn't want to do, the things I wanted to set free. What was really cool about that was I I thought about who could I pass this on to? So if a meeting planner reached out and said, Hey, can you do this productivity or attention or focus keynote? I said, you know, I'm not the right person for you, but let me introduce you to this person. They'd be brilliant for you. So I could gift a lot of that to other speakers, other thinking leaders, and that helps the meeting planner or the bureau partner, but also it helped me because I was able to then gift them something else and grow their business while I could then focus on something else. Yeah, I don't think I attribute it to one thing. I think there's a certain sense of relentlessness to me. People will tell you that I am quite relentless and stubborn, some might say. Like I'm very, very determined when I want to achieve something and very focused as well. So I think it's a lot of things. I don't know that it's any one thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

So if somebody was facing a similar decision as you, you know, thinking about should I pivot within my business or even quit this business, what do you think the first thing they focus on should be in that decision making?

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yeah, I mean, one way to look at it is if you were to look out ten years from today and you could paint the lifestyle that you wanted and you could think about all the experiences you wanted to have and give others, how would you reverse engineer that? What would that look like to you? Because I don't think that when you're doing a pivot, it's it's not all easy, it's not all clean, it's often really, really messy, and the messy middle is what people don't see. They only see the results of the Instagram grid that is perfectly curated, right? And so I think I would say have a look all the way down the track. You know, what do you want to think and feel and do? And what does that look like? And how would you reverse engineer that, right? That would be one thing that I would talk about. But the other thing that I would say is we have this privilege while we're on this planet to do something that is going to contribute. What you can call that a calling, your job, your purpose, your mission, whatever you but that's it. That's what we get. And sometimes it's not until we lose someone we love or someone we love is ill or we get sick ourselves that we are forced to really think about that. But wouldn't it be cool if you could think about it before you needed to do that? And so I would just encourage people to think about like if you had like zero-based thinking, like just think of that as like a blank sheet of paper. If you could truly design the life that you wanted with the people that you wanted and be in the place that you really wanted, how would you reverse engineer that? And then set to work on putting a plan in place for that. And I'm not very patient, but it will take a level of patience if you want to pivot.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

And do you think that there are potholes or traps that people naturally fall into in that time?

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Sure, I did. You're gonna go through the most insane self-doubt. You're gonna want to quit, you're going to have to defend your decision to people you didn't expect, you're going to be really surprised by people. I always tell every new author, you will know who your friends are. It surprises you when you publish a book, who supports you and who does it. Like, so you know, the assumptions you make about people could be incorrect. So you really need to be able to understand there's gonna be so many potholes. You're going to doubt maybe where the next lot of money is gonna come from or whether you're gonna get a return on the investment you're making. You I don't know about anyone listening to this, but I was second guessing opinions and decisions all the way along. That I didn't have that clarity. Sometimes you just spend the money and have a belief that it is going to return to you. So yeah, there's lots of potholes. The potholes are definitely about profitability, they're definitely about people and often about the process that you're going through as well.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Well, this has been a really uh enlightening conversation, Neen. I'm so glad you could you could share your story. But what's the one thing you want people to keep top of mind based off of what we talked about today?

SPEAKER_01 43:46

You have a responsibility as a leader because leaders set the standard of everything. And so as a leader, you have this opportunity to make people feel seen, heard, and valued in your care. So if you can choose to do that every day, I think it has this opportunity to create these significant moments that matter. And while you may never see the benefit of that, people will remember that for a lifetime. So create those memories because I think it really does make an impact. And and if you can do it with a little bit of luxury, I think everyone does deserve that luxury every day.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

And so if more if people wanted to learn more about what you do or find your book, where can they do that?

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Uh easy peasy. Neen James is only one online, so come and find me on Instagram, follow my adventures every day. And if you want to know more about the book, you can find it wherever your favorite books are sold.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Sounds great. Well, thank you so much for joining our show today. It's a privilege. Thank you for what you're doing. Thank you. And to our audience, make the decision, act on it, be accountable, and until next time, be unstoppable.